Warsaw 31 December 2013
An inclusive environment is one which is open and accessible to all disabilities. The inclusive environment does not foster the wheelchair ramp at the front steps it eliminates the front steps. Truly inclusive environments simply do not discriminate between the able and the disabled user. No other group reacts faster to poor IAQ than the Asthma Prone. We refer to these Asthma Prone as the “IAQ Sentinels” and we would do well to heed their warning
SOLIDEA Group EVE® Services and Building Sickness
EVE® is an acronym for Energy Value Engineering. SOLIDEA Group offers it’s expert due diligence team to its energy clients as “After The Meter Services” we are the first energy company in Poland to assist our clients in “Saving Energy”. Through a FOUR Stage Workout of better building condition, improved energy management and control, energy saving devices and finally energy offset SOLIDEA EVE® team are dedicated to save their clients energy costs but not at the expense of the health, welfare and well being of the building user.
Saving Energy is just a part of what we do. Many building owners and building operators fail to keep their buildings in good order, failure to maintain buildings and building environments means building users are at risk. All building operators are guilty of wasting energy, but many building operators are managing “Energy Diets” to hide the true cost of their energy consumption and building defects. Failure to maintain proper designed environment through cost cutting will inevitably cost the building operator or its owner more than just energy.
EVE® works with building owners, building operators and building users to ensure building environments are in good order and that the risk to building users is minimal. EVE® already delivered a very high return for its global clients, these returns are not only measured in Energy Saving, Cost Saving, Improved Efficiency, Project Sustainability and Profit we have endeavored and are committed to improve the environment for everyone.
EVE® clients rank amongst some of the most sustainably advanced organizations operating in the World, not just Poland, many of our asset rich client are already setting their sights beyond 2020 on the new 80% target energy reduction for 2030. Together with our post due diligence sustainability design and operation workshops we focus on building user environments and building sickness not just saving energy. Whilst many others are still mismanaging energy use and risking imminent redundancy, truly sustainable organizations are moving forward to a new era even in Poland.
“Time and time again EVE® environmental workshops demonstrate to deliver excellent value, lower cost in operation and milestone improvement for the enclosed environment. Today we ask all of our clients to consider Asthma Inclusive Environments as the Sentinel, the basic benchmark for all IAQ standards in future”
What is Asthma?
Asthma is a physical condition which affects the respiratory system the word Asthma originates from the Greek language it simply means panting. Symptoms of Asthma are shortness of breath, wheezing, coughing and chest tightness. Most Asthma attacks occur as a result of Allergens. Poor air quality, pollution and environmental chemicals as well as dust plays the most significant part in aggravating Asthma even more so than natural pollen and other airborne particles.
Often Asthma symptoms are treated for bacteria or as viral infections, many Doctors in Poland are too quick to prescribe a sale of antibiotics even steroids knowing full well it is the patients environment which is at ill and a sickness.
Asthma prone building users provide an “IAQ Barometer” of building user conditions for building owners and building operators because truly “Asthma Inclusive” environments are such safe environments, a benefit to the health and welfare of all of us. Like “Canaries in a Coal Mine” the Asthma prone are our best early warning system against long term effects of defective IAQ.
In Poland it is our environment which is to blame for Asthma suffering. Over the last 20 years the outdoor environment has improved but it is unlikely that the number of Asthma sufferers has declined proportionally for a variety of reasons. Where we have made progress in the outdoor environment we are losing the case for IAQ [Indoor air quality]. Particularly where we have sought to improve building conditions, and especially where changes occur in building technique; Asthma is tending to increase.
Rising costs of energy, poor maintenance, lower cost building materials and building condition are to blame for the current status of Asthma in our working, leisure and home environments. By making our buildings tighter and making them more insulated with lower value materials and without improving the ventilation regime we are forsaking even the basic IAQ conditions of the building user.
Who suffers from Asthma?
More than 10% of the population in Poland suffer from Asthma, many more of the population will experience one or more random Asthma attacks during their lifetimes. Asthma except in few cases is avoidable as most of us work indoors we spend more than 90% of our lives inside buildingS. With higher building standards we would achieve fewer building defects, it would mean far less Asthma.
Anyone can become an Asthma sufferer at anytime in life. Asthma is a common hereditary condition however the environment where we work, play and live is a major contributor to the condition. Asthma and IAQ is finally coming of age in Poland, as many EVE® clients set their sights on true sustainability in design and operation they also focus on better building user environment because the welfare of the building user directly impacts the productivity of their business through the wellbeing of their employees.
Prevention Is Better Than Cure
Asthma is a reaction to allergens. An allergen is a type of antigen that produces an abnormally vigorous immune response in which the immune system fights off a perceived threat that would otherwise be harmless to the body. In simple words the body overreacts to the allergen continuously sneezing, coughing or hyperventilating creating a lot of drama over a relatively small illness.
Doctors used to believe that the bodies overreaction to Allergen was an unnecessary condition and one that could simply be suppressed with drugs. Today Doctors challenge this belief at least for the benefit of the many thousand of sufferers who continue to endure intense courses of unnecessary prescribed drugs, drugs which can could have been avoided, simply by bettering enclosed environments.
Long term any benefits for the use of drugs to suppress Asthma would have been better spent in improving IAQ where better ventilation and cleaner working conditions would have been to the benefit of everyone not just the Asthma Prone. Better environments that meet the needs of the Asthma Prone enjoy increased productivity and the long term comfort and well being of all building users because they are rich in oxygen and low in Allergens.
Negligence of building operators to maintain indoor environments and the readiness of Polish Doctors to prescribe drugs rather than properly observe symptoms subject thousands of people to courses of medication which benefits drug companies, cost the health system and the patient dearly. The dependency on Asthma Prone drugs either prescribed or over the counter long since overran common sense.
What aggravates Asthma?
The most common causes of Asthma condition are highlighted in our “Asthma Carousel”
The “Asthma Inclusive Environment” requires planning, management systems, diligence and common sense, whilst we give a simple case explanation, the basics of the “Asthma Carousel” and its impact on IAQ is different in each case study. Because the impact is different in each environment and for each building please consider our approach as informal. For the basis of planning, each of the “Asthma Agitators” falls into one of four categories “Manageable”, “Avoidable”, “Discretionary” and “Containable”
Ventilation and ventilation regimes are entirely manageable, the Polish Building Code like most other building codes provides clear and concise requirements for building owners to provide and manage ventilation at least by design to a minimum health standard.
Unfortunately many building regimes fail to maintain proper ventilation most of the time after building handover some building regimes are even guilty of actively operating inefficient ventilation to save energy costs. Despite the fact that efficient ventilation systems are a requirement for health, welfare and fire certification ventilation is still poorly policed in Poland.
Since the 1970’s we have developed a tendency to prescribe Asthma with drugs rather than investigate the circumstances leading to Asthma condition. Before the advent of prescription drugs rooms we were actively ventilating room occupants often opening all windows and airing bedding to ensure a fresh working or living environment.
“Many of Poland’s office workers today work in fully climate controlled environments, when the building operator decides to turn the fresh air down to save money everyone gets sick. Without doubt better ventilation now as it was before these environments were created is the best relief from the causes of Asthma”.
Mechanical systems change air by displacement and by circulation of new air [it usually provides a draft] circulation of air in closed curtain walled buildings is mixed with more fresh air. In lesser environments circulation is achieved with “comfort cooling” the fresh air mix is rather more left to chance. The supply of fresh air into an environment has a profound effect on the productivity, welfare and safety in the working environment. Lack of fresh air and still environments have a tendency to lack occupier concentration and to aggravate Asthma. Air change is deficient if it recirculates air without replenishing with sufficient new fresh air.
Many of the investigations undertaken by the EVE® team have resolved complex ventilation issues especially those detrimental to building users. Defects within building ventilation systems are commonplace, maintenance or lack of it is a major contributor to building sickness. Tampering with systems which replenish air is becoming more frequent. Simply by restricting the contribution of fresh air in the mix cycle in mechanical systems building operators find they can save significant energy consumption. Most air handling systems fail to operate as they were designed to for a variety of reasons. Poland generally lacks the proficiency to reverse this phenomenon the outcome is building users get sick.
Having less cold or hot supply air to process or to raise or lower the temperature within the enclosed environment presents instant cost savings. The design criteria in Poland is such than 1% less cooling or heating presents energy savings of at least 4% energy. EVE® team have regularly recorded 5 degrees and more “Indoor Climate Variation” whilst saving 20% or more in energy CO² levels are detrimental to health and welfare. Building operators think nothing of acting in negligence risking the health and welfare of their occupants and often causing misery for many.
The practice of reducing environmental conditioning in Poland is a common activity some building operators even go to great length to erase operational logs and to cover their tracks, because long term, reduced environmental conditions puts the building user and the building owner at risk, the risk to the building owner can mean claim for damages even prosecution.
EVE® team practice random CO² and CO testing in enclosed environments to qualify data collected from Building Management Systems. EVE® team findings are often as shocking to building owners as they are to the building tenants who instigated those findings.
Case Study: EVE® team recently unofficially visited a Warsaw Retail Centre Car Park at the request of one of its tenants. Traffic congestion [and confusion for exit signage] causes high levels of CO in the parking decks adjacent the stairwell access for all building users. CO detectors are located at the stairwells they activate the air evacuation system for dangerous levels of CO in car parks. During this one incident CO levels clearly passed the 2500 ppm levels and for several minutes before the traffic had cleared. Failure of the the CO evacuation system to respond in such an instance occurs because of willful tampering of mechanical systems by the building operator putting building users health and welfare after reasonable cost control and without any respect for public health.
Cleanliness at home, at work or at play is entirely manageable. A good cleanliness regime extends the life cycle of any installation it truly benefits the health and welfare of the building user. Failure in cleanliness is a failure in management regime and one which cannot be excused.
Dust in homes, offices, and other human environments contains small amounts of plant pollen, human and animal hairs, textile fibers, paper fibers, minerals from outdoor soil, human skin cells, and many other materials which may be found in the local environment.
High traffic areas especially need thorough cleaning regimes as they can contain much dust and therefore many dust Allergens which can trigger Asthma and lead to severe respiratory disorders later in life. It is important to thoroughly value engineer cleaning regimes which eliminate dust because dust accumulation can provide all kinds of significant unforeseen risks to the building user and building operator.
Transport and Building User Surveys among regular users and those prone to Asthma provide far better insight to Allergens than any artificial sampling or measurement techniques. The results of Building User Surveys should be fully investigated the outcome could no doubt have serious implications.
Case Study: London Underground [was considered an Asthma Hotspot]. During investigations of the King Cross Fire Disaster in London in November 1987 when 31 people lost their lives. Dust accumulation comprising human tissue on the underside and mechanical equipment of the wood tread escalators aided rapid combustion in an otherwise bare environment. The combustible, accumulation of dust and fat had occurred over many years because the underside and the enclosed space of the escalator was not subject to any cleaning regime. Over 250 escalators were replaced on London Underground following the fire.
Cost cutting makes for poor cleaning and even poorer maintenance regimes. Cleaning in offices, public places and retail environments is essential for a variety of reasons not just IAQ. Dust which settles on surfaces such as floors, desks, ledges and even inclined surfaces presents a health problem to all building users after time and without adequate cleaning regimes which eradicate dust.
Dusting of offices and homes is best undertaken early in the morning when dust has settled, combatting dust in this way leads to progressive cleaning regimes. EVE® team can readily measure airborne particles to monitor the efficiency of IAQ in mechanical systems and the efficiency of cleaning regimes.
Chemicals are a manageable resource however the incorrect use or mismanagement of Chemicals are a significant source of Asthma and building sickness. Many of the Chemicals available in Poland through local sources are wholly unsuitable for use in confined areas, the common trait of mixing of Chemicals to achieve stronger agents by cleaning and maintenance operatives is highly negligent.
Allergens in Chemicals such as perfumes should be avoided in favour of neutral agents. All Chemicals which are procured, stored and deployed in the cleaning and maintenance regime of a building or installation should be recorded and managed, they must come from a reliable and responsible source, the content and use of Chemicals including their dosage and application requires strict control.
“Most perfumes and cosmetics are full of Allergens. In the United States the Food and Drug Administration has been beseeched by the Perfume Industry not to introduce legislation against Allergens for more than 50 years because if it did many of the famous luxury brands would be removed from the shelves. Perfumes are additional ingredients in all kinds of commercial, household and cosmetic products. Special care needs be taken in the commercial environment to protect building users against long term exposure to perfumes”.
Many Hypoallergenic Chemicals such as disinfectants are surprisingly missing from cleaning regimes, this is surprising because a wet wipe can be efficient in removing dust but it is disinfectants that help to combat the occurrence of many of the most allergenic or secondary dusts. Disinfectants are necessary in cleaning regimes if cleaning and allergen reduction is to be progressive.
Dust is a wholly manageable and to some extent avoidable building disorder, as we mentioned already dust is a variety of small and micro particles originating in the local environment. Dust is avoidable with careful consideration for an effective maintenance regime. After building handover dust control is best managed if it is progressive and if the design considers how successful and easy maintenance can be completed.
The presence of the Dust Mite [the main image in this post] complicates the issue of dust for our enclosed environment because the Dust Mite consumes dust, it is a significant source of Building Sickness we refer to the feces of the Dust Mite as a secondary dust.
Dust Mites exist in our environments are often outnumbering us many millions to one. Although they are so small and we can rarely feel them on our skin, Dust Mites feed and multiply off skin and other debris shed by the human body. The Dust Mite feces are micro particles and an Allergen and if the Dust Mite population is not controlled they may threaten bodily harm to even the fittest person. Scientist believe that more than 1.2 Billion People worldwide developed severe allergy to the House Dust Mite [Acronym HDM].
It is critical that the Dust Mite population is kept under control in any enclosed environment. Many employers are keen to preach better housekeeping to their employees in the new Central European Markets to promote health and safety at home not just at work. Dust Mites can be removed in dust maintenance but they can be best eradicated by using disinfectant during dusting.
All commercial vacuum cleaning devices should be fitted with HEPA type filters the filters require regular replacement [some regimes have their final content tested] to be correctly maintained and properly used. EVE® team recommend low quality and defective service equipment is immediately replaced healthy environments require progressive dust control. Defective maintenance regime creates regressive environments and promote building sickness.
Spores are the reproduction mechanisms of mold, spores are the asexual seeds of mold which are necessary for survival of mold, spores are released by mold to reproduce. Mold often accumulates in most difficult and inaccessible reaches making mold difficult to manage. Mold can readily accumulate in defective natural ventilation and forced mechanical systems.
Mould is detrimental to human health, mold causes respiratory problems through inhalation of spores including Asthma. In large quantities and through production of Mycotoxins mold can present a serious health hazard to humans especially in the event of inhalation of large quantities of mold spores which especially occur in confined spaces such a cellular offices.
Spores are most often released triggered by a climate change such as a rapid change in humidity, sunlight and changes in occupancy are usually enough to create these changes. It is important to air rooms thoroughly before occupation, to safeguard against the effects of many common spores.
The symptoms caused by mold allergy are watery, itchy eyes, a chronic cough, headaches or migraines, difficulty breathing, rashes, tiredness, sinus problems, nasal blockage and frequent sneezing. We can measure the level of spores in the enclosed environment with the support of a laboratory we can also determine the nature risk or threat level of present mold in any given room or space.
Short term, spores can have effect on Asthma Prone victims, however long term exposure can provide significant health hazard to everyone. The risk of mold growth is significant after flooding and as a result of wet basements when spores are distributed at higher levels through ventilation ducts and risers.
At roof level emissions from air handling systems accumulate under plant, the accumulation of mold at roof level must not be allowed to accumulate. EVE® team find many building operators indifferent to mold and spores under HVAC equipment. Disinfectants should be applied to these affected areas to prevent risk to building user health, regular maintenance of roof top plant prevents mold accumulation.
Extreme cold conditions kills many molds preventing emission of spores, asthma often misdiagnosed as bacterial infection increases in extended seasons such as delayed winters. Outbreaks of cold and chest infections are prevalent when weather conditions are extended or when chrono triggers become confused.
Asthma sufferers are particularly prone to spores from mold like a “Canary in a Coal Mine” the Asthma prone provide us with our earliest warning signal. Finding the source of the ill comes with good investigative skills and many years of experience.
Infestation is avoidable through good building practice and building awareness during building due diligence EVE® team already delivered several reports where building managers were indifferent to building infestation.
Infestation refers to the state of being invaded or overrun by pests or parasites. It can also refer to the actual organisms living on or within a host. Building user can be subjected to a variety of Allergens as a result of infestation and with various consequences. Infestation can have a dramatic effect on health and wellbeing through bites, stings, feces, dander or other effects which occur through infestation. Building systems can become temporarily even permanently impaired as a result of building infestation.
Most building infestation occurs as a result of poor design, bad maintenance, and unfinished works. Building infestation becomes prolific and health threatening as a result of poor education [unqualified management], indifference, and negligence.
Buildings and transport systems should be designed to cockroaches, deter bird perch, nesting or migration. A diligent and effective maintenance regime is aware of all infestation and is able to prevent, inhibit or control it. Often infestation causes significant defect before it is detected.
Volatile Organic compounds create little discomfort short term, before creating significant damage to our health long term. It is the long term effects of VOC’s which have created new changes in the medical view leading to better investigation of the environment which ails the Asthma Prone.
Long term exposure to VOC’s which have been past tolerated by those exposed have caused cataclysmic disorders such as lung, liver and other cancers. Those exposed to VOC’s have tolerated the short term side effects such as headaches and dizziness but with dire long term consequences.
Noticeably styrenes and uPVC systems are prolific in Poland and have become the norm in Polish construction. Styrenes emit VOC’s at acceptable levels only providing they are well ventilated when they can seemingly have only minor effect on public health. Unfortunately now styrenes are used to tighten buildings, reducing ventilation they can have a prolific impact on the enclosed environment. EVE® team opinion is styrenes and uPVC systems are seriously endangering the health and welfare of those who work and live in the enclosed environment.
Most advanced industrial nations already banned uPVC systems in public and commercial buildings and since as long ago as the 1990’s [Germany and Austria]. Meanwhile styrenes are almost never used in applications for enclosing buildings in advanced industrialized nations, at least because of their health implications [Sweden, Denmark, Norway]. However these industrial nations think nothing of promoting the use of these systems in Poland [Germany, Austria and Italy].
During design workshops EVE® team always strive to remove all styrenes and uPVC systems in all projects in almost all cases. We firmly believe the environment, the workplace and the economy could do better without these short life cycle systems.
Pet Dander [Discretionary]
Pet Dander is the skin fur and hair of pets [not the feces of mites or cockroaches] and other animals they are source of significant Allergens and can cause considerable discomfort to many people not just the Asthma prone. Rodents, dogs, cats and horses are particularly capable of causing allergic reactions because of Pet Dander.
Pet Dander is entirely discretionary, EVE® have past recommended that the tolerance of some infestation [in one case a fox] was not to be tolerated because the older the animal [and the infestation] the greater the risk to human health. There are several humane animal agencies in Poland who can deal with infestations humanly relocating the creatures in question and most often for the benefit of both parties.
Per Dander is seldom a problem in commercial environments [maybe with the exception of Blind Dogs who are generally selected from species with low Dander Counts] but increasing Asthma awareness in your workforce may significantly improve productivity especially in women who have a significant tendency to stay home with children as a result of Asthma and pets
Cigarette Smoke [Discretionary]
Second hand cigarette smoke is a significant to the Asthma Prone, the long term effects of secondhand Cigarette Smoke is well known and well proven. Dedicated smoking areas should be provided for smokers and preferably far from entrances and exits. One unpleasant trait of Polish Offices and Factories is having to pass smokers on entering any given facility.
Building owners and building operators have an obligation to ensure that smoking does not occur on the premises. Smoking should be confined to dedicated areas meanwhile many of us look forward to smoking bans at transport stops, entrances, in the park and on beaches.
Modern internal landscaping is mostly Hypoallergenic, building owners and building operators should ensure that any Greenscape contractors and suppliers have public indemnity. Installing the wrong Greenscape can have serious consequences including financial ones.
Some flowering trees in Poland are prone to creating widespread allergies although contrary to common belief building owners have every right to fell these trees without planning permissions. Many small spore tree species are unprotected species in Poland and can be readily felled, Building owners can also request certain trees are to be removed from neighboring property as a result of significant nuisance.
Generally trees with the smallest pollens create the greatest discomfort not only to Asthma Prone but to many of us at least at some times of year. Smaller pollens penetrate our respiratory system large pollens don’t. The smallest emitted pollens can be as small as 10µ [ten microns] largest pollens and least easily ingested are 100µ [one hundred microns]. Unfortunately the smallest pollens are as small as half the size of detectable dust measure even using the latest hand held equipment.
There are two types of trees Monecious and Dioecious. Monecious are male or female flower bearing and Dioecious are male and female bearing. From an Allergen perspective, the worst trees you can live around are Dioecious males, which will bear only pollen and no fruit or seed. The best plants in our environment are Dioecious females as they bear no pollen and are allergen-free.
Dry and diseased trees should be removed immediately. EVE® team have noted that tree conservation is often rather optimistic often forbidding or delaying the felling process however property owners and operators should never take risks with dry, diseased or dead trees as they prevent a much greater risk to healthy trees and building users if left in poor condition. The fact is more trees die of disease than they do as a result of fire or storms. Dry, dead or diseased trees harbour molds which produce spores and aggravate Asthma. EVE® team recommend that building owners and building operators get to know at least the species of all trees one block in either direction of their installation to assess tree risks.
Internal planting is entirely discretionary. Meanwhile fresh flower displays do not belong in commercial or public environments. If in doubt call an expert.
Foodstuff [Containable and Discretionary]
Preparation of pungent foods such as the cooking of fish should be carried outside of the commercial environment [in a purpose made industrial environment]. Environmental conditions in commercial application with few exceptions and in few circumstance [where special conditions are provided e.g designated food halls] require preparation of food off site only reheating and serving preparation of food can be completed on most commercial premises.
Building operators require to police food preparation. In EVE® team experience in Poland all manner of practices are ongoing and we could never be more surprised.
Offgas is containable, we make provision to deal with all offgas in the design of our projects in accordance with the law and good building practice for this reason we consider them as containable. Most often problematic offgas occurs as exhaust from the combustion engines in cars entering and leaving the environment under our control.
Emissions from gas converted cars potentially create the biggest threat to our well being second is Diesel [and third lead free benzine or Petrol].
Offgas can occur from gas heaters, ovens and hobs. In Poland there are very strict regimes to manage offgas, chimney sweeps measure and certify ventilation measures and stacks which exhaust gas in homes, they do so in places of work and places of leisure at least in our cities.
Many new and self build projects are built in Poland without any concern for ventilation or evacuation of offgas. Many rural installations do not have gas connections and use instead bottle gas. Both natural and bottle gas use are very unhealthy dangerous and life threatening without flue installations.
Many self build projects in the suburbs incorporate built on garages. Built on garages are garages which are built onto the house whilst this is not strictly against the law it is very much against good building practice. The offgas from cars or exhaust and especially Diesel exhaust requires the garage to be totally isolated from the house to be safe.
Carcinogens in Diesel are not only known concern for cancer they are an imminent danger to health. Regulations in place for Diesel use in the EU are changing in favor of those in principle of the US where Diesel is far from the preferred transport fuels.
Parking gas converted cars inside any garage is not recommended, the banning of gas converted cars in underground garages elsewhere in the EU is old hat. In Poland these restrictions are just around the corner [an issue commercial planners still seem to overlook]. Parking spaces are required outside of the building for gas powered cars.
Pollution is the contamination of the environment from Point Source [a single source of pollution such as a local power station] or Non Point Source [a variety of sources such as the run off from from the local river]. We generally think of pollution as air borne contaminants but direct sunlight which causes heat gain, and unnecessarily raises UV levels inside the enclosed environment is also pollution.
Local and regional levels of atmospheric “Ambient” pollution are usually well monitored and documented at Point Source, meanwhile the impact of pollution within any given building which affects Indoor Air Quality is less known. Obviously the level of pollution in the supply air for the enclosed environment are ultimately dictated by “Ambient” conditions. Other forms of pollution e.g. UV penetration and building condition are containable because they are a reflection of building design standards maintenance and operation.
Providing any Point Source of environmental contamination is located some way away, local air handling and mechanical systems is capable of filtering out most airborne pollution to the benefit of the building user. Small airborne particles present a problem for the building environmental control system especially where solar control measures are ignored. Poor protection or “Solar Gain” creates unnecessary airborne pollution as a result of increased air activity [solar gain causes mechanical air handling systems to race it prevents dust from settling]. Solar Gain causes changes in humidity especially low humidity in Winter, dryness of human tissue in the human respiratory system reduces human resistance to the penetration of allergens and germs causing sickness even epidemic.
“SOLIDEA EVE® team have more than 20 years experience in local Central European markets and are at the forefront of better IAQ development in Poland. We have a great deal of international experience [we even managed a lot of work after Kings Cross Fire Disaster] but most of all we care about building users”